Especially when a mother died the way mine did, slowly from within, cancer is ugly and nasty, once it hit her brain, she was done. I apologize for stating this strongly, but anyone would. Again, 2 of 3 of her children did, again, I was 1 of those 2 children. YOU didn't, nor did attend her wake, nor her funeral, nor sent flowers to her. None of you held her hand when she died in 1997, but 2 out of 3 of her children did, and I was 1 out of the 2. Some 300 miles from family, and with no transportation. However, no one shall taint my mother in this manner, she was proper when it came to wedding my father (despite her young age of 16), and then birthing the 3 of us, plus, she didn't walk away from her responsibilities, like our father did. My stepfather had many issues, and had primarily targeted me as his release to his issues, and my family, that is why it is not a compliment. I realize I am speaking out of anger, but with the very strong implications of being accused of a liar, and/or an illegitimate birth, which I do take highly insulting, and from where I sit, is no better then my stepfather, and that is so NOT a compliment. Maybe from Betham's 1795 tables.Įllen Tudor is not a later invention - she shows up in Thomas Tonge's vistation of 1530 (he was then one of the officers of the College of Arms), here in a version printed in 1863 by the College of Arms: thus, I can't say what manuscripts, if any, this information is coming from. I now wonder where THAT piece of information came from.īut the index, which is highly difficult to use (the university is still in the process of digitizing these trees, and the search function is coming later) isn't coughing up either Jasper or Helen - they are born just too late. Fair is fair.īartrum gives only Helen as a daughter of Jasper, and doesn't name her mother (the squiggly line means that she is illegitimate). Much like the English, dealing with the Welsh. I find that where the Welsh intermarry with the English, he becomes highly inaccurate - that being a hallmark of the Welsh genealogies themselves. He's the only person to have corralled all the Welsh genealogies and caused them to make some sort of sense. He's not a primary source he provides a compilation of primary sources. So he is always to be taken seriously, even when disagreeing. I don't think Bartrum is 100% accurate indeed, a great deal of the time, especially in the earlier branches of the trees, he doesn't manage to make the chronology make sense Darrell Wolcott has been wrassling that.īut in the field of Welsh genealogy, he's considered the gold standard. In other words, what evidence is there that the Giant Reference Of Welsh Genealogy is wrong?īecause believe me, if there were really a link to the Tudors he would have known. What exactly is the evidence that this woman existed AT ALL?Īnd if she DID exist, what is the evidence that she married William ap Yevan and bore his children? It's actually a Titian, of an unknown young woman: Here's a nice little bit, too - you see that pretty picture of her? it's very pretty indeed. So far, all the references have turned out to go nowhere. I followed up all the links I could, and I went looking myself, and I find LOTS of assertions as to her existence, and I find NO references. At the very least, she shouldn't be named Margred verch Thomas. They often don't include the English, but she is a Welshwoman, and should be in here. I know it would be great for all the descendants of the Cromwells to also be descended from Jasper Tudor, the supposed Joan's father, but she is not showing up here, in the Welsh Genealogies. She's also the mother of William's children. I know Bartrum's notes aren't exceedingly easy to follow, but if you go the the section called "B" and follow it down, you see that Ieuan of Whitchurch (he is called Yevan by the English) marries Margred Kemeys they have a child William of Whitchurch, Privy Councillor to Henry VII, and he is married to Margred verch Thomas. I've gotten to the tree in Bartrum where she SHOULD be showing up, and she isn't. There are a couple of other discussions that mention Joan Tudor, connected to this profile, and I'm starting another.
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